MORE INFORMATION / OPEN VOTES

Everything related to eNorway that does not fit anywhere else.
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taulen
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MORE INFORMATION / OPEN VOTES

Post by taulen » 24 Sep 2012 21:51

Hey guys,
stuff that doesnt have to be internal, should be posted here in the open Congress forum at once.
MPP's and stuff that have an large impact both economic and military should the people be able to speak our mind on.
Voting yes on a fucking MPP with Turkey is in my mind TREASON. I know they are in EDEN, but NO WAY should we vote yes there, afther what they did to us this weekend.

After not accepting a question to be MoD this month, and been kicked from the Internal Affairs forum, I can know see how little information people get, I and others dont know shit thats going on, until its too late, and this is something that should be changed.
We need a more open discussion around everything that Norway does. Hadnt I had good friends that let me know about some of what happens before closed doors, I wouldnt have a clue. I can REALLY see why people are saying that nothing is happening, and that there is too little informatin, because if you're not in congress, or goverment, and therefore have access to the internal forums, YOU REALLY DONT GET ANY INFORMATION.

taulen

Also posted in a open underforum, where people have access to write their opinions.

Che Kukaken
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Re: MORE INFORMATION / OPEN VOTES

Post by Che Kukaken » 25 Sep 2012 20:24

Great idea. Talk with the Forum admins about it:)

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shadowvoider
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Re: MORE INFORMATION / OPEN VOTES

Post by shadowvoider » 26 Sep 2012 07:26

Sounds like a good idea.
I can relate to the feeling of not knowing what your country is doing!
"Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting."

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Ursidae Polar
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Re: MORE INFORMATION / OPEN VOTES

Post by Ursidae Polar » 26 Sep 2012 11:02

it will be up to CP and congress chairmen how much information to make public, and which posts to move into open forums. chairman have full moderator rights, forum admin is just technical :)

and completely agree that MPP with turkey now is a blunder
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skaue
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Re: MORE INFORMATION / OPEN VOTES

Post by skaue » 26 Sep 2012 18:16

The MPP with Turkey was voted down by the Congress, even though I urged them to accept it.
I will explain it once more in here. I spent a lot of energy trying to turn Turkey away from using Norway as arena for their vendetta game against Russia. Reports say the players who fought there laid down a huge amount of damage. So how much my complaining really helped is unknown to me. The point was to get the officials (government) of Turkey to not support the RW.

We ask EDENs members to respect our status as an equal member and not just a pawn of the major members, like Turkey. Would turning our backs on Turkey give us some kind of leverage in EDEN when CP's debate how Turkey treated a fellow member? I don't think so. In fact it would give Turks an excuse to disregard Norway even further. Remember, Norway is not a military strong nation, so our only means to "defend" our existence (so to speak) is by media and being honorable against our allies (read: EDEN). We cannot afford to be as arrogant as Turkey came off.

Also, it has been brought to my attention the attack in Nord-Norge was not officially supported, but something a group of Turkish players assembled to piss Russia off. I have no problem finding that plausible. But again, it is arrogant to do this without consulting us first.

Turkey is obviously very annoyed that Norway is allowing one of their strongest nemesis get additional bonuses. They even see it as an disloyal act towards a fellow EDEN member. I see their point.

In other words, MPPing Turkey is in my eyes not treason, but being loyal to EDEN which currently is our alliance. I find it strange that you taulen would want something else, given your strong feelings for EDEN.

As for openness in Congress. The only thing we've discussed internally that ought to be made public is the decision on how many Congress votes we need for a law to pass. I moved both the discussion from internal to public, a couple of days late. We are still being a tad secretive with the budget and our treasury. No need to "tempt" PTOers.

Having said all of that, I am pro-openness! Don't confuse the extended use of internal forums for being secretive. In fact, the activity on this forum in general is super low. As for the internal forum, it has long been decided to be for Congress and Government. We never discussed allowing some extra hand picked "oldfags" to have access.;-)
Losing access to internal forum means you did not join Congress or Government this term.

I truthfully had plans to write weekly summary of government activities, but there is not enough time. I can barely get time to fulfill the regular tasks (CP, EDEN, Game Moderator, etc) in addition to RL activities. Damn Turks forced me to sit late on Saturday and write an article telling them straight. Again, the lack of communication is not intentional, so calm down, relax, breath with stomach, shoulders down, etc...

Now, I have to go... (foreldremøte på skolen).

Tommy Skaue
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Stakerauo
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Re: MORE INFORMATION / OPEN VOTES

Post by Stakerauo » 26 Sep 2012 19:01

We never discussed allowing some extra hand picked "oldfags" to have access.;-)
We did, but people disagreed on allowing it. I supported that point of view previously, but then I still had hope for the congress to start living again.
I only regret that I have but one life to give for my country.

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skaue
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Re: MORE INFORMATION / OPEN VOTES

Post by skaue » 26 Sep 2012 20:51

Yea, well, it's not like we can force ppl to be active. The argument of more openness will make the already established Congress more active is jsut void to me. If the established Congress is inactive, then that's just the way it is. I'm not going to run around and slap people in the head for not checking the forum every day. That's just silly.

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taulen
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Re: MORE INFORMATION / OPEN VOTES

Post by taulen » 26 Sep 2012 21:09

Skaue:
take a look at the rquirements for FSK. There it will say that I have to report on the budget and stuff like that twice a month, and beduase that involves the budget, I'm not allowed to post that anywere open. So yeah, I need access to do my job, but noone cares about that, and neither do I, just saying.

Edit:
And yeah, its not that there is much going on internal, but from not having access for a few weeks, its pretty obvious to the outsiders that they "miss" very much, pretty important stuff about what is going on. There is no doubt about that. I would never have played this game if I never received that information anyway some way or another.

Edit2:
And I'm not criticizing YOU skaue, just the lack of information. Seriously, there haven't been written an article from norways perspective in weeks, or months, nope, nothing, at, all. And that's what is SO clear when I suddenly don't have access anymore. I can really see the "point" when someone is talking about an elite. Its not an elite, but its lack of information, and only the ones having access gets that information. If you doubt me, try kicking yourself as admin, and all gov and congress privileges, for a month and see for yourself.

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skaue
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Re: MORE INFORMATION / OPEN VOTES

Post by skaue » 26 Sep 2012 21:33

Where are those requirements? I can't find them.... :-(
When did FSK start to report a budget on a monthly basis? I was under the impression the Minister of Finance did budgetting (if any, or half-baked, or "fredrikz"-style), and any "reporting" would be a matter of a message from you to the MoF. I recall a post this summer asking for additional funding, but it looked more like an adhoc "report".

Besides, you have everything in your spreadsheets, not on the internal forum. I would argue you have access to whatever you need to do your job. Let me just quickly add that I have so far not seen anyone document so thouroughly their production progress as you are, so documentation level is super high with you, taulen. Again, all outside the forum, in open spreadsheets.

What I could suggest is that the Congress discuss amongst themselves if perhaps the MU commanders of our military branches should have same access as government and congress, and perhaps also the administrators of the KickStart program. I look upon these as essential functions in eNorway (currently).

Tommy Skaue
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taulen
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Re: MORE INFORMATION / OPEN VOTES

Post by taulen » 26 Sep 2012 21:47

Om du gir meg tilgang i 2 minutter, så skal eg finne posten det står i til deg.

Edit2:
Men uansett, som eg har sagt, så er det på igenmåte DETTE som er poenget med denne posten, eller det at jeg bryr meg om jeg har tilgang eller ikke. Bare prøver å få frem et poeng, om at vi må ha mer informasjon, og det hovedsaklig pga det meste som til nå er tatt på internal på ingenmåte faktisk er noen grunn til å ha skjult. Og det er for lite informasjon, rett og slett. Alt annet blir egentlig offtopic i denne tråden.

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taulen
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Re: MORE INFORMATION / OPEN VOTES

Post by taulen » 10 Oct 2012 00:28

Her er den informasjonen, ville bare vise at det er tilfelle, og ikke bare noe jeg "fant på" :
Chapter 6 - Funding
The unit is funded by the State Budget and/or by commune work
The Commanders must present accounts on the 20th each month on Congress Internal Affairs
If unable to meet the deadline, permission to postpone must be issued 5 days before deadline.
Postponement can be given only twice for each elected term.
Så med andre ord, så må enten den tektsten gjøres om på, eller så må FSK, eHV, decorations og kickstart commanders ha tilgang til Internal Affaird selv om de ikke er i regjering / kongress.

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skaue
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Re: MORE INFORMATION / OPEN VOTES

Post by skaue » 10 Oct 2012 20:03

Gjorde kontrakten til en "sticky". Måtte leite litt bakover for å finne den. Neste gang linker du, din latstaur. ;-)

Om de som leder Kickstart og FSK automatisk skal ha samme tilgang som kongress og regjering tror jeg ikke noen har tenkt på. Helt sikkert fordi historisk har ikke det vært tema. I utgangspunktet skal de vel kun presentere en rapport, og for det trenger man kun sende en melding. Det er helt klart mulig å argumentere for at de verken trenger lese eller skrivetilgang til kongressens og/eller regjeringens forumseksjon. Når det er sagt, så burde vi kanskje ta høyde for en forumgruppe eller seksjon der disse kan rapportere eller melde behov til kongress uten at det er offentlig. Siden vi er en bare en liten gruppe aktive spillere, så er det enkleste og pragmatiske å bare lage en forumgruppe og gi de rette spillerne tilgang direkte til internal affairs.

Eller hva sier dere?

Tommy Skaue
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Stakerauo
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Re: MORE INFORMATION / OPEN VOTES

Post by Stakerauo » 10 Oct 2012 20:48

Høres ut som en kjempe idé spør du meg!
I only regret that I have but one life to give for my country.

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taulen
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Re: MORE INFORMATION / OPEN VOTES

Post by taulen » 10 Oct 2012 20:53

Hvordan det løses er ikke opptil meg. Jeg bare forholdt / forholder meg til det som ble avtalt eg...

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skaue
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Re: MORE INFORMATION / OPEN VOTES

Post by skaue » 11 Oct 2012 12:22

Er vel ingen som har påstått at de føringene og reglene som vi koker opp her på forumet er helt perfekte og tidløse. Man prøver å koke opp ting som dekker opp til det man kommer på i farta, så må vi skru på ting og tang underveis som vi oppdager det. ;-)

Jeg ordner en gruppe og putter taulen og polar i dem. Så får de andre som leser dette senere bitche og klage etterpå. Business as usual. ;-)

Tommy Skaue
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Akashaton
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Re: MORE INFORMATION / OPEN VOTES

Post by Akashaton » 11 Oct 2012 18:09

Høres bra ut :!: ;)
Current MoF, PP Free Liberty
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http://tinyurl.com/MU-L-o-Loki
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